Comments on: Primal Body – Primal Mind

By: Fred Hahn

Fred Hahn — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:26:14 +0000

Hi Greg – I agree with you on the fruit but it would be hard to eat enough veggies unless they were tubers and root veggies to be harmful. Lots of fiber in them too.

Krieger knows all that stuff. He justs argues because he doesn’t think I know it. So he tries to prove me and other people wrong by hoping we can’t argue and win because we don’t have the intellectual ammo he does.

By: Greg Roseman

Greg Roseman — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:34:03 +0000

Fred,

just show Mr. Krieger the research that has been done on the effects of carbs on insulin and the effects on the insulin/glucagon ratio. Mr. Krieger is stuck in the gluco-centric paradigm. Carbs stop the flow of fat out of the fat cell. Insulins first role is not as everyone believes to clear glucose out of the bloodstream, but to block the release of fat out of the fat cells. Insulin produces an enzyme Mcoa, which converts carbs to fat and a high fat diet produces and enzyme cpt-1 which allows the body to release fat from the fat cell. The food we eat is responsible for the types of enzymes we produced.

Greg

By: Greg Roseman

Greg Roseman — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:28:03 +0000

Fred,

fruits and vegtables are also carbs and equate to sugar. As you aware the body converts all carbs to glucose. Fruits and vegtables can be just as problematic as a bowl of corn flakes. One orange can drive a healthy person’s fasting insulin levels, 6-10 microunits per milliliter to well over 20 microunits per milliliter at which point the bodies ability to burn fat is reduced by 50%.

Greg

By: Fred Hahn

Fred Hahn — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:34:30 +0000

Matt – it’s by invitation only, sorry. You can join the Society (well worth it!) and then ask to be included.

Christopher – Thanks for the praise. James is a smart guy and says a lot that is pro low carb but he has a chip on his shoulder to prove everyone wrong who he feels is full of BS even when he knows deep down they are not. He’ll grow out of it in about 10 years.

By: Christopher Kosel

Christopher Kosel — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:24:17 +0000

Interesting thread. I’m new to your work Mr. Hahn, but based on this thread you seem a whole lot more credible and certainly more likable, than your nemesis Mr. Krieger. Some of us out here have enough common sense to know that what you espouse is reasonable and works for a great number of persons, while carbohydrate-laden diets that others promote have failed for those same individuals. Keep up the good work. I’ll be buying your book this weekend (even though you have no fancy abbreviations after your name) .

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:26:58 +0000

Is the NMS Yahoo group an invitation-only affair? I would love to join.

By: fred hahn

fred hahn — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:37:22 +0000

“I read the scientific papers. I publish scientific papers. You quote books by people you deem to be authority figures, without further investigating their claims. For example, I just gave you a number of studies indicating the relationship between energy intake and obesity is causal. I took the time to investigate this. You took Taubes word for it. Who is the one not doing his homework?”
I read the papers to James as does Gary and all of the others I have mentioned. In fact, most of the people I mentioned would be your professors. Perhaps this is why you are afraid to join the NMS group? You seem completely disinterested in learning. You seem only interested in proving yourself right. This is the sign of a poor scientist. You should be eager to discover how your positions and thoughts might be wrong. This ability is what led Gary to his conclusions.
I am not a scientist. But I do my best to read as much as I can and learn how my current thoughts on training and nutrition might be wrong. I have made HUGE shifts in my thinking and reccomendations in the past 20 years I’m proud to say.
You’ll need to re-read GCBC because you are missing the entire premise (seemingly on purpose). Start with chapter 17-20. You’re missing the bigger picture.
Yes if you eat more calories than you need you MAY get fat. You may not. You have your head so far buried into scientific papers you’re losing sight of the road ahead. Sciecne is a roadmap to help on a journy of learning and gaining insights. But if you keep looking at the map while on a journey, you’ll probably crash into something. You need to look up, look around and think more deeply James. But you’re obviously young. You’ll learn soon enough.

By: fred hahn

fred hahn — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:23:34 +0000

For those of you interested in a more in depth understanding of the information I provided on blood sugar, read this web post by Dr. Eades.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/a-spoonful-of-sugar/

By: fred hahn

fred hahn — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:42:03 +0000

I composed a very long response to you Jsames and it just vanished and I don’t have time to rewrite it.
As for this:
“Cassandra said nothing of the sort. I encourage any bystanders reading this to go over to this thread at jpfitness and you can see verbatim what Cassandra wrote (and it isn’t what Fred is claiming)”
Cassandra, in a public email on the Nutrition and Metabolism Yahoo group wrote this:
“There were a few subjects we had that just didn’t do as well with a keto diet. This doesn’t mean they didn’t lose weight or fat at all. I’m not sure exactely why this was the case. I was just sharing my experience. n = 1″
So you see James, you should think before you write. ALL of the subjects lost fat – some less than others as is always the case in research.
Cassandra’s statement on the JP forum was said as a gang member wanting to get her kick into the victim. When I sent an email to the NM group asking how this could be that Volek’s lab had some people do terribly on a VLCKD Cassandra was busted. She knee jerk reacted and sent the group a nasty email and within it the truth came out.
She even fooled you James. No one did terribly in her research James. Some just did better than others.
She also misspoke, well lied actually, about me using other peoples words.
“This was pretty evident in the discussion over on jpfitness. Cassandra exposed the fact you were going over on the N&M group and getting the answers from other people and repeating those answers verbatim. You had to rely on them rather than relying on yourself and examining the data for yourself and thinking for yourself.”
Sorry James thought you’d like to believe this it is completely untrue. What was she doing? – Going from web page to webpage and checking to see if I was copying other people’s words word for word? It’s absurd. She once again was just telling another fib to save face because she felt busted for misrepresenting the work done in Dr. Volek’s lab on the JP forum in order to join the gang againt me.
If I have the time I’ll launch into the rest of the nonsense you posted.

By: James Krieger, M.S., M.S.

James Krieger, M.S., M.S. — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:36:55 +0000

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Cassandra admitted that ALL of the people in her research placed on a VLCKD responded well
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Cassandra said nothing of the sort. I encourage any bystanders reading this to go over to this thread at jpfitness and you can see verbatim what Cassandra wrote (and it isn’t what Fred is claiming):
forums.jpfitness.com/diet-nutrition-supplementation/39280-fierce-conversations-2-more-important-adequate-protein-carb-reduction.html
In this post here, Cassandra says how most did well, but some did “terribly”:
forums.jpfitness.com/750163-post123.html
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Ultimately ALL body fat is made from glucose.
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Really? So you’re saying that free fatty acids cannot be used to make fat?
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Additionally, glucagon is required for fat stores to be tapped for energy.
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No, glucagon is not required. Fat cells can release free fatty acids in the absence of glucagon. Studies by Hagen all the way back in the 1960’s demonstrated this.
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Glucagon does not operate in the presence of insulin.
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Glucagon certainly does operate in the presence of insulin. It’s not like one switches on and the other switches off.
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Yes – I discount anecdotal evidence as you do.
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But you’re happy to use it if it supports what you believe, and you’ll discount it if it doesn’t.
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f you eat enough carbs to stimulate insulin, glucagon cannot function and body fat does not get burned.
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Another erroneous statement. If this was true, someone on a high carbohydrate diet, yet in an energy deficit, would not lose body fat….yet they do.